EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3


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Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.22 22:37:00 - [1] The thorax is an interesting ship - it's one of the few cruisers which are viable in pvp - thus it should be nerfed. Ships should not be nerfed simply because they aren't t2 or take 5 months of training to used effectively - remember for every hardcore pro in this game - there are 5 newbies like me who like to play around. We don't have the massive amount of isk or the SP to fly ubert2 HACs or some battleship - however, we still want at the very least a chance to be halfway decent in battle. Right now - the Thorax gives us that chance, to be able to contribute to a fight or a battle without having a seperate alt dedicated to making isk and training for a couple years. The Thorax is not the problem; the problem is that Cruisers right now are woefully underpowered in pvp.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.23 20:28:00 - [2] Edited by: Fidelis Deus on 23/08/2005 20:30:28 Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Fidelis Deus The thorax is an interesting ship - it's one of the few cruisers which are viable in pvp - thus it should be nerfed. Nobody said that, and if you are trying to make people believe that it was said... well, though it may work, the confusion you bring isn't shedding light into the debate. Please explain how I am bringing confusion. From my point of view, it seems that the majority of people complaining about the thorax are complaining about the fact that a smart pilot managed to destroy their ship that cost quite a bit more. The Thorax IS one of the few cruisers that are viable in pvp, and like some people crying for a nerf simply because that battleship/HAC of theirs isnt a instant win button vs anything costing less then that. Originally by: Naughty Boy I'm probably as much of a noobie as yourself. Again, you are purposefully bringing confusion in the debate. Nobody said that the thorax had to be nerfed because it is not t2 or the other things you write. That would be silly and i'm afraid, you want people to believe that the arguments are silly, on basis of the confusion that you bring. Looking at some of the posts in this thread, more then one user has complained he cannot kill a thorax in a battleship fitted for destroying other battleships, If you look carefully some people do call for a nerf simply because its not 60 million isk. I do agree that the thorax is overpowered compared to other cruisers, but in the grand scheme of ships its hardly overpowered. Quote: How does it relate to the fact that the cruiser is carrying a battleship weapon, something of the kind of - as i said in a previous post - cruise launchers on a caracal or megapulses on a maller. It's not carrying a battleship weapon, heavy drones, while excellent at damage dealing, are easily destroyed by a pack of drones, smartbombs, or guns. Once a plateraxes drones are gone, he is useless. Quote: Look, your confusion again. How does the fact that one has an alt relate to the debate ? The thorax, with a plate, has battleship armor + battleship weapon + anti frig defense, and is only marginally affected by nos in his damage output, as opposed to other cruisers - except the rupture and caracal - and electronic warfare - except the caracal. With or without the plate, this unique combinaison make it completely overpowered, as compared to its class, and also as compared to other classes. It is completely outside of the general game design in so many ways: - no real tradeoff between damage output and tank (thanks to oversized plate, but ALSO thanks to the fact that it doesn't give up much by not carrying guns... all the fitting resources can be dedicated to tanking). - carry a weapon not designed for its class (8 heavy drones), actually equal to several battleship guns/launchers in damage output and range, and also gifted by a particulary awesome tracking. - can dedicate the gun hardpoints to frig and cruiser defense, thus in fact covering with weapons of the right size every class of ship there is in the game. And the list goes on. I don't see how its confusing that I believe cruisers should be able to contribute to a battle while delaing decent damage instead of being destroyed by someones bigger more expensive instawinbutton. I'd agree with you on the fact that compared to other cruisers its overpowered, but looking at the grand shceme it fits in perfectly.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.23 20:28:00 - [3] Edited by: Fidelis Deus on 23/08/2005 20:30:28 Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Fidelis Deus The thorax is an interesting ship - it's one of the few cruisers which are viable in pvp - thus it should be nerfed. Nobody said that, and if you are trying to make people believe that it was said... well, though it may work, the confusion you bring isn't shedding light into the debate. Please explain how I am bringing confusion. From my point of view, it seems that the majority of people complaining about the thorax are complaining about the fact that a smart pilot managed to destroy their ship that cost quite a bit more. The Thorax IS one of the few cruisers that are viable in pvp, and like some people crying for a nerf simply because that battleship/HAC of theirs isnt a instant win button vs anything costing less then that. Originally by: Naughty Boy I'm probably as much of a noobie as yourself. Again, you are purposefully bringing confusion in the debate. Nobody said that the thorax had to be nerfed because it is not t2 or the other things you write. That would be silly and i'm afraid, you want people to believe that the arguments are silly, on basis of the confusion that you bring. Looking at some of the posts in this thread, more then one user has complained he cannot kill a thorax in a battleship fitted for destroying other battleships, If you look carefully some people do call for a nerf simply because its not 60 million isk. I do agree that the thorax is overpowered compared to other cruisers, but in the grand scheme of ships its hardly overpowered. Quote: How does it relate to the fact that the cruiser is carrying a battleship weapon, something of the kind of - as i said in a previous post - cruise launchers on a caracal or megapulses on a maller. It's not carrying a battleship weapon, heavy drones, while excellent at damage dealing, are easily destroyed by a pack of drones, smartbombs, or guns. Once a plateraxes drones are gone, he is useless. Quote: Look, your confusion again. How does the fact that one has an alt relate to the debate ? The thorax, with a plate, has battleship armor + battleship weapon + anti frig defense, and is only marginally affected by nos in his damage output, as opposed to other cruisers - except the rupture and caracal - and electronic warfare - except the caracal. With or without the plate, this unique combinaison make it completely overpowered, as compared to its class, and also as compared to other classes. It is completely outside of the general game design in so many ways: - no real tradeoff between damage output and tank (thanks to oversized plate, but ALSO thanks to the fact that it doesn't give up much by not carrying guns... all the fitting resources can be dedicated to tanking). - carry a weapon not designed for its class (8 heavy drones), actually equal to several battleship guns/launchers in damage output and range, and also gifted by a particulary awesome tracking. - can dedicate the gun hardpoints to frig and cruiser defense, thus in fact covering with weapons of the right size every class of ship there is in the game. And the list goes on. I don't see how its confusing that I believe cruisers should be able to contribute to a battle while delaing decent damage instead of being destroyed by someones bigger more expensive instawinbutton. I'd agree with you on the fact that compared to other cruisers its overpowered, but looking at the grand shceme it fits in perfectly.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.23 21:08:00 - [4] You enjoy flying cruisers in PVP, yet would rather simply nerf the thorax to the point where it cannot compete as a viable vessel against bigger ships instead of rebalancing all the cruisers? The thorax fills its intended role.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.23 21:08:00 - [5] Edited by: Fidelis Deus on 23/08/2005 21:10:50 You enjoy flying cruisers in PVP, yet would rather simply nerf the thorax to the point where it cannot compete as a viable vessel against bigger ships instead of rebalancing all the cruisers? The thorax fills its intended role. While I would much rather have a thorax that can compete on the same level as the current one but with a blaster setup - the drone bay works fine.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.23 21:46:00 - [6] 10 medium drones is approximately 50 dps. Secondly, without a plate, a cruiser is dead very very fast.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.23 21:46:00 - [7] 10 medium drones is approximately 50 dps. Secondly, without a plate, a cruiser is dead very very fast.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.23 23:03:00 - [8] If you pick your fights, yeah, any ship will last for a bit. Unforetunately, without plates battleships can press that instawin button against cruisers.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.23 23:03:00 - [9] If you pick your fights, yeah, any ship will last for a bit. Unforetunately, without plates battleships can press that instawin button against cruisers.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.24 02:55:00 - [10] A cerebus can pump out the same damage at an extreme range and be able to run when the going gets tought. The Thorax is only able to pump out that damage at extreme close range. I agree perfectly with the person two posts above me - that the thorax is what all cruisers should be, a capable combat vessel that is deadly in skilled hands.

Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.24 02:55:00 - [11] A cerebus can pump out the same damage at an extreme range and be able to run when the going gets tought. The Thorax is only able to pump out that damage at extreme close range. I agree perfectly with the person two posts above me - that the thorax is what all cruisers should be, a capable combat vessel that is deadly in skilled hands.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.25 04:34:00 - [12] Originally by: DrunkenOne badboy 4tw. http://h4xx.eve-killboard.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1495 You know, I think all frigates are overpowered, some newbie in a frigate killed me in my mining ship. I paid like 5 mil for that mining osprey, I should be able to press a little button that says blow ship that costs less then me up... Oh wait, it's a mining ship... If both pilots are decently skilled, the bigger more expensive ship wins. If the cruiser pilot has a big advantage in skills(both SP and tactics) he may be able to beat a larger battleship(shield tanked apoc).
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.25 04:34:00 - [13] Edited by: Fidelis Deus on 25/08/2005 04:37:15 Originally by: DrunkenOne badboy 4tw. http://h4xx.eve-killboard.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1495 You know, I think all frigates are overpowered, some newbie in a frigate killed me in my mining ship. I paid like 5 mil for that mining osprey, I should be able to press a little button that says blow ship that costs less then me up... Oh wait, it's a mining ship... If both pilots are decently skilled, the bigger more expensive ship wins. If the cruiser pilot has a big advantage in skills(both SP and tactics) he may be able to beat a larger battleship(shield tanked apoc). Unlike WoW or D2, the larger ship should not win simply because he is the larger ship.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.25 04:42:00 - [14] Edited by: Fidelis Deus on 25/08/2005 04:44:59 Agreed completely, the Thorax is fine. Plates are the problem here. By the time the Thorax manages to close to optimal range with its blasters and drones, it needs the heavy damage output to destroy whatever it's attacking.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.25 04:42:00 - [15] Edited by: Fidelis Deus on 25/08/2005 04:44:59 Agreed completely, the Thorax is fine. Plates are the problem here. By the time the Thorax manages to close to optimal range with its blasters and drones, it needs the heavy damage output to destroy whatever it's attacking.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.26 05:41:00 - [16] The Thorax pilot would be toast without his plates before he managed to get within blaster range. Without the plates, the thorax is a high risk hihg payoff machine, it's quite fragile.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.26 05:41:00 - [17] The Thorax pilot would be toast without his plates before he managed to get within blaster range. Without the plates, the thorax is a high risk hihg payoff machine, it's quite fragile.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.29 05:54:00 - [18] Drones, unlike missiles or guns, have a weakness, they can be destroyed. This single weakness makes sure that drone carriers don't have an extreme advantage over other ships.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.29 05:54:00 - [19] Drones, unlike missiles or guns, have a weakness, they can be destroyed. This single weakness makes sure that drone carriers don't have an extreme advantage over other ships.
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.29 23:41:00 - [20] Once the thoraxes drone bay is nerfed, I predict a NERF TEHHH MALLLERR thread, after the Maller has been nerfed, a NERF TEEHHH STABBERRRR......

Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.29 23:41:00 - [21] Once the thoraxes drone bay is nerfed, I predict a NERF TEHHH MALLLERR thread, after the Maller has been nerfed, a NERF TEEHHH STABBERRRR......
Fidelis Deus	Posted - 2005.08.29 23:41:00 - [22] Once the thoraxes drone bay is nerfed, I predict a NERF TEHHH MALLLERR thread, after the Maller has been nerfed, a NERF TEEHHH STABBERRRR......

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